Curse

Dutch Masterr · Dec 04, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

If you, with your sin, kill a Dervish using Avatar of Balthazar, then he was a poor Dervish to start.I like the sin's ability, but The Avatars can truely outpower and overpower any sin build you can think of. I tanked through warriors and sins with my Dervish, not saying that they don't need some effort to get the job done against a warrior, but the sin is truely outmatched in a blow for blow. Now,2 sins...that may end differently.

BTW, don't sins and dervish have the same base max armor rating?

dont be so ignorant, dervish dont outmatch anything, any class, including monk, has the ability to kill any other class....most assassins truly suck, but it isnt dificult to kill a derv with a sin...ive killed plenty of dervish with balthazar and melandru easily...im not saying i kill every one i come across, but if you use your build right it isnt hard. sure you can make a build specificaly to kill a tank or assassin (like most do =P) and use it with great effectivenes, but that also leaves you vulnerable to other builds....as with any character. im not putting dervish down, i may hate playing as them, but they are indeed a great class.

Dzus · Dec 04, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Of The Paths

Not saying the profession sucks but the crowds of kids who fell for the scythes and hoods.

I fell for the hoods, but not because I'm a grenth/reaper wannabe.

Quote:

The Dervish armor consists of robes, which include bracers for the hands and hoods which symbolize their humility to the gods.

Now that's a damned cool bit if you ask me.

ogami_ito · Dec 05, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

I hate scythes and robes. Its like some 13 year old teenage heavy-medal dirt-bag from 1984 concept of cool. I wish they could have japanese style polearms or something. But anyway, Dervs are cool, they can tank, they can DPS, they can spike...in short, Dervs kick butt

jesh · Dec 05, 2006, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Hey.. there's nothing wrong with heavy metal, man.

Ivan Darklord · Dec 05, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainman

ok when i 1st got nightfall i made a dervish but whenever i wanted a party for a mission no1 wanted me. today i asked every1 why the hates dervish'. they all replied with they are weak and defensless like assasins. i was shocked that some people would think that!

for 1 thing assasins are strong and defenseful but saying dervish are like assasin??? the only think in common is the armour defense (70 AL).
dervish have loads of skills to do amazing damage and protect themselves. i could go right now stick a few skills together and it would turn out a good build. the problem with guild wars is that it is inhabited by idiots that think because we have 10 AL less than warriors we cant tqank or take damage at all! they treat dervish' like they are casters! i am very tired of them saying this and not letting me into a party JUST BECAUSE IM A DERVISH. i mean you have got to agree that dervish are not being treated as well as they should.

it seems that almost everyone hates them!

Heres the problem, well oftenly new players (noobs) dont have a clue which profession is the best, so they just pick the ones that look cool (I.E Assassins and Dervs) and then go to play in missions and have no idea what they are doing. Same thing happened in Factions, when Sins first came out, no one wanted them cuz there were too many and die easily. Those 2 characters are misused by newbie players. I have a sin and derv, they deal a great damage output, but to get a group in those 2 misused characters just simply start one of your own, just like I do.Oh, I got Legendary Survivor and protecter title of cantha on my sin

, trust me it aint easy..

Dutch Masterr · Dec 05, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzus

If you find you can't do much of anything with a Dervish, you're obviously playing the wrong class.

Though, I never really bothered tanking. I have my warriors for that. I rolled a Dervish so I wouldn't be expected to tank and still have a melee class.

I love the versitility of this class, it's not quite a Swiss Army knife, but it is a clever balance of casting and hard-hitting melee.

well like any other class, it requires practice to get the right feel for the class. like me, i can play any class except dervish, paragon and ritualist, mostly because i havent played them much. im currently unlocking derv skills for pvp to test them out to see if should make a pve one.

fleshvirus · Dec 05, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Assassins are naturaly weak but they got a limited powerfull blow that can instant kill you.

as for dervish, they can own you if it is a professional player using it

Cold · Dec 06, 2006, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Let's not get carried away with a dervish tank. Warriors will always be better at pure tanking, at 16 in strength you get:
Defy Pain: +20 armor, +314hp
Dolyak Signet: +42 armor
Endure Pain: +314hp
Signet of Stamina: +317hp

All that is not removable, cannot be interrupted and are skills or signets, so you can add some stances on top. Overall you get +62 armor and +945hp.

ogami_ito · Dec 07, 2006, 04:25 AM // 04:25

^^^ I a little it disagree.

I believe PURE TANK Warriors WILL always be a better tank than a PURe TANK Derv. I believe Dervs CAN be pretty good tanks and can in most cases take on the same tank role as warriors. But I feel that there is alot missin in this analysis.

First of all, of these skills you mentioned:

Defy Pain: +20 armor, +314hp
Endure Pain: +314hp
Signet of Stamina: +317hp

Defy Pain is an elite…and if the goal is to be the ultimate tank…well…I would not pick it. And these two skills are NOT very good in PUGs for a very important reason… as its ending, you lose a lot of hp. That means you have to have a pretty good monk who realizes this and will heal you, or…your dead.

Dolyak Signet: +42 armor
OK. But now most mobs run around and kite. Still…this is, in my opinion, the BEST warrior tank skill and the main reason why warriors may be better tanks. This, and stances.

Whats more, there is a lot of armor ignoring damage and conditions in this game that do a lot of damage to tanks.

A Derv tank can easily have +24 armor with a stance, and 50% of the time have at total of +64 armor. And with common Derv insignias and enchants – which Dervs always have on – the Derv has another +15 armor.

The Derv class has mana to spam self-condition removal. They have an elite form that adds +200HP, and makes immune to conditions. When that form wears off, the Derv's self heals compensate quickly. And, the hallmark of the class…massive amounts of self-heal.

Cold · Dec 07, 2006, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Tell it to ppl tanking in Domain of Anguish

And btw, tanks do not run after kiting mobs, they stay in one place and try to survive.

On top of what was already mentioned warriors have:
Defensive Stance - +24 armor, 75% evade attacks and arrows
Disciplined Stance - +24 armor, 75% block attacks
Wary Stance - 100% block attacks
"Watch yourself!" - +22 armor (13 in tactics)

So let's combine it all together:
+100 armor (sentinel)
+16 armor (shield)
+5 armor (sword)
+42 armor (Dolyak Signet)
+20 armor (Defy Pain)
+24 armor (Stance)
+22 amor ("watch yourself)
Overall 229 armor.

-3 dmg (rune)
-2 dmg (shield in stance)

480 initial health
-75 superior stregth
+50 superior vigor
+45 (shield)
+314 (Defy Pain)
+314 (Endure Pain)
+317 (Signet of Stamina)
Overall 1445hp.

+75-100% evade/block attacks.
And again, the only thing that can be stripped is stance that can me recast immmediately.
And nothing can be interrupted. You can cast all of that (except signets) even if you are knocked down. But you won't since you have Dolyak Signet

So pls be serious, or someone will bring up earth eles, 55 monks and Shadow Form assassins

ogami_ito · Dec 08, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

^^^ Well, I did say a PURE warrior tank will be much better than a pure derv tank. I think it would be very boring to play what you have described up there though.

Here is a question though...can you really actually "tank"? I have never done that in GW. Well...I tanked in The Deep with experienced players. In PUGs, just no way. Now, with mobs kiting and often running off, is it really possible to "tank"...meaning...absorb all the agro.

Tarkin · Dec 09, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Dervish in pve = trash, ever crip, or ever slowdown is a second class tank...
Dervish in pvp = a bit better because people dont carry skills for strip
enchants or crip them...

And how i can say that? because i finish the game with the 10 classes, dervish was the worst, mesmer... rit... sin... monk... i get better results, just to say i finish the game with all classes in warmachine mode... just run get the quest make the quest make the mission... 12 <> 15 hours to finish the game with everyclass... (less paragorn and dervish you need more game time to finish) and put in party the my low level heros ever to levelup them...

I finish the game easily with 9 classes, fast and with no stress just with henchs and heros...

Dervish make me repeat easy mission a lot of times, need to put my high level heros, put elite builds... dervish in pve are #$%#^^%$&%&%^&%&^$^%# of @!@$%%%^%*&*&&.

Any class > dervish in pve.

Tarkin · Dec 09, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Funny i see good potential for a heal party build with dervish

like elemental heal party, but much better

...
The future of the big warrior... will be stay hide fight just heling the party lol lol lol lol lol lol

Tingi · Dec 09, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarkin

Dervish in pve = trash, ever crip, or ever slowdown is a second class tank...
Dervish in pvp = a bit better because people dont carry skills for strip
enchants or crip them...

And how i can say that? because i finish the game with the 10 classes, dervish was the worst, mesmer... rit... sin... monk... i get better results, just to say i finish the game with all classes in warmachine mode... just run get the quest make the quest make the mission... 12 <> 15 hours to finish the game with everyclass... (less paragorn and dervish you need more game time to finish) and put in party the my low level heros ever to levelup them...

I finish the game easily with 9 classes, fast and with no stress just with henchs and heros...

Dervish make me repeat easy mission a lot of times, need to put my high level heros, put elite builds... dervish in pve are #$%#^^%$&%&%^&%&^$^%# of @!@$%%%^%*&*&&.

Any class > dervish in pve.

I understand that is YOUR OPPINION, but IMO what you just wrote I don't ENTIRELY agree with. For me, the dervish in PvE is very good. The ability to tank, inflict heavy dmg, and act as support are good roles indeed. Now im not sayin that the dervish is a good a tank/dmg dealer as a warrior or as good as support as the Paragon, but what I am saying is that I never had any trouble getting into a group with my Dervish and when I did I rarely had any trouble inflicting dmg or dying.

However, I do see your point for the PvE aspect of playing a Dervish. Dervishes obviousyl rely heavily on enchants too help them survive/inflict dmg etc - and so if you ever come across a large mob of mesmers it can be quite frustrating trying to recast of of your enchant because they have all been stripped. But for me, the Dervish good bits outmatches the bad bits.

.

no damage tank · Dec 09, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

yeah i totally agree with the origonal post m8, dervs and sins arent like as much as they should do, they deal gd dmg, i personally love the derv, its like a w/mo in 1 but they look soo kool!! ive always wanted a grim reaping holy fighter type!

Crom The Pale · Dec 10, 2006, 05:06 AM // 05:06

I've played both wars(since GW presale) and dervish(since nightfall came out) so ive a good feel for both.

As for tanking they can both be effective, but they use diffent styles.

A War can bost his armor for a short time thus allowing him to charge into a mob and deal some damage or inflict a condtion then get back to his monks for some healing. He can instantly bost his armor to deal with most spikes but for most pays a price in mobilitly.

A dervish using the right enchants can sustain perment healing and raise his armor allowing him sustained tanking. Mostly at the expence of having to maintian enchants and cutting down on his offence.

Now im talking about primary classes only here, when you start adding in secondarys the whole thing spirals out of control as both are very adept at using other classes skills to efficiently bost themselves.

Both classes can utilize either a high damage build or a high defencive build.

As for those that fear the use of enchantments vow of silence gives some nice protection, not complete, but will keep most of your enchantments safe.

As for damage output I would have to say the Dervish can dish out more damage faster, but at the expence of lots of energy.
A war can dish out a non-stop supply of damage with adrenaline skills, given time, that will inflict mass damage.

The biggest diffence that I found from playing both of this is that Wars have interupts, Dervish do not. Dervish deal out conditions faster and easier than wars and more of them.

I have yet to find more than a handfull of times when a Dervish could not fill the spot of a War.

I love both classes and with the right skills either can be a terror on any battlefield!

XvArchonvX · Dec 10, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Personally I think Dervishes are a strong class, but there will always be some idiot out there that will make the class look bad due to pure stupidity in it's use. I had a derv in my group once that kept getting spiked horribly. I found out that the reason he kept getting slaughtered was because he had no defensive skills and used no enchantments. Pretty sad really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cold

Tell it to ppl tanking in Domain of Anguish

And btw, tanks do not run after kiting mobs, they stay in one place and try to survive.

On top of what was already mentioned warriors have:
Defensive Stance - +24 armor, 75% evade attacks and arrows
Disciplined Stance - +24 armor, 75% block attacks
Wary Stance - 100% block attacks
"Watch yourself!" - +22 armor (13 in tactics)

So let's combine it all together:
+100 armor (sentinel)
+16 armor (shield)
+5 armor (sword)
+42 armor (Dolyak Signet)
+20 armor (Defy Pain)
+24 armor (Stance)
+22 amor ("watch yourself)
Overall 229 armor.

-3 dmg (rune)
-2 dmg (shield in stance)

480 initial health
-75 superior stregth
+50 superior vigor
+45 (shield)
+314 (Defy Pain)
+314 (Endure Pain)
+317 (Signet of Stamina)
Overall 1445hp.

+75-100% evade/block attacks.
And again, the only thing that can be stripped is stance that can me recast immmediately.
And nothing can be interrupted. You can cast all of that (except signets) even if you are knocked down. But you won't since you have Dolyak Signet

So pls be serious, or someone will bring up earth eles, 55 monks and Shadow Form assassins

First of all, Wary Stance only blocks attack SKILLS, not attacks. I really have to question your knowledge of anything in GW if you think a warrior can ever have a 100% chance to evade attacks with the skills you list.

ogami_ito · Dec 10, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Again...my question...have you actually seen anyone actually "tank" recently? And by tank, I mean purposefully absorb all the agro. (and no...solo farming builds don't count.)

drupal · Dec 10, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogami_ito

Again...my question...have you actually seen anyone actually "tank" recently? And by tank, I mean purposefully absorb all the agro. (and no...solo farming builds don't count.)

This isn't possible neither for a warrior nor for a dervish. You always need a bit healing support if your enemies are strong. That's the reason why I love my dervish, he can combine selfhealing with a nice defense.

But I don't have a problem with ppl saying that a dervish is weak against enchantment removal, it's just true.

Dutch Masterr · Dec 10, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

i was sitting in ab waiting to join a game, as usual, and im watching this kid say how dervish are too underpowered and assassins are way overpowered. he kept saying dervish need to be improved and made stronger and assassins need to be nerfed......now im reading this in extreme disbelief on how someone can possibly say that about either class...imagine if the made dervish any stronger. they would dominate every other class. imagine if they made assassin weaker. they would be 100% useless. just thought i should post this here =P. somepeople truly amaze me...